DR SHOLA Mos-Shogbamimu is a familiar sight on TV, whether that is doing battle with Piers Morgan over racism directed at Meghan Markle.

Fearless and forthright, she takes no prisoners in her battle against white supremacy.

An author of the popular book ‘This is Why I Resist: Don’t Define My Black Identity’, Dr Shola frequently enrages the white establishment with her analysis of racism and society.

I caught up with the lawyer, speaker, activist and media commentator to dig a little deeper into what inspires her, and find out how hopeful she is that we will see change in our lifetime.

Lester Holloway: I want to start where we are, in the middle of the culture war, which is also a time when 57% of the public actually believe that the British Empire was a good thing. How do you combat such ignorance in this atmosphere?

Shola Mos-Shogbamimu: The majority of those will be white – but I’m sure that there’ll be some black and brown brothers and sisters shooting off their mouths as racial gatekeepers – because it’s not a difference of opinion if you deny my humanity just to save yours. I believe in engagement between societies, but it cannot be to the extent that one society totally plunders, spoils, steals, kills, kidnaps another society just purely for its benefit.

That’s nothing to be proud of; and that is what the British Empire did. If, in the 21st century, you have people in this country that can say the British Empire was a good thing, that is pure evidence that our education utterly failed in teaching British history.

History has been rewritten to justify killing and stealing in the name of ‘civilisation’ – I mean come on! Do these people have any understanding of the civilization on the entire African continent before the white man ever stepped foot on our continent? What the heck! And today we’ve got white children asking: ‘Do you have libraries? Do you drive cars?’

LH: The first library was in Mali. 

SM-S: British history must teach about the atrocities that was done in the name of the British Empire. And the same mentality and standards that drove the British Empire back in the day continue up until today, which is why we still have institutional racism in this country. The way that people who are not white are treated, particularly from an immigration status; this is all part of the legacy of the British Empire.

LH: I want to go back to racial gatekeepers. The point’s been made by you, Dawn Butler and others, but I’m not sure it’s getting cut-through to the public. Or is it important to put these issues on the table regardless of who buys into it?

SM-S: I don’t think we can talk about race, racism and race relations without talking about racial gatekeepers. We must understand that racial gatekeepers have existed from time immemorial. The people who will put themselves first, over those who are similar to them, all because of their proximity to whiteness and wanting to get the benefits from that. People who will close the gates and create huge obstacles that will stop the progress of other people. Look at Priti Patel; how can you look at the system that helped your parents come into this country, so you could rise to become Home Secretary and now you want to stop other people who look like you from having the same opportunities? Not all skin-folk are kin-folk. Whatever position I’m in, I should be helping to bring more people through the same gate I walked through. Heck, we need a whole new set of gates. We should not stop talking about the role ratio gatekeepers play, but what people must do is equate racial gatekeeping to difference of opinion. It’s not the same thing.

LH: You talk a lot in your book about black identity and also the struggle against institutional racism. What do you mean by black identity, and the role it plays in resistance?

SM-S: Look, when people look at me, I am defined firstly as a black woman. I did not create that title. Whether you’re African, African American, Afro-Caribbean, Afro of Jewish descent, Afro-Chinese descent, the moment there’s a drop of black person in you, black, right? But black comes with all of these derogatory stereotypes. I’m done with your identity of black people, the way you choose to define us. That’s not who we are. That’s not who I am. So I need to change that narrative and say, ‘everything you think is wrong about me is exactly what is right about me.’

So in the book I wanted to explain what black identity looks like through the lens of white privilege, and how, quite frankly, I no longer give a flying Flamingo. I’m going to tell you exactly where I stand. People are now hearing what we’ve got to say and they’re like ‘I’ve never heard anyone speak like this! You’re not as polite as we expect’. Your words are not polite to me, your words are violence. My mother did bring me up well but the Nigeria part of me cannot tolerate nonsense, and I refuse to be quiet.  

LH: I wanted to get your thoughts on the way forward, because we have the Black Lives Matter movement, which is a continuation of previous struggles, but where do we go from here?

SM-S: What I want people to understand is, when we talk about the next steps on progress on race, racism and race relations, there’s really one question we need to be asking. And this question that James Baldwin asked over sixty years ago, which is ‘when will white people progress?’ That’s the question we should be asked in the blessed 21st Century, okay. Because, quite frankly, they’re the ones holding themselves back, not us. The continued expectation on black people to win the hearts and minds of white people, to soften them a bit,step by step taking them through like you’re holding in the hands of a toddler, while you are suffering. While you’re the one bearing the brunt of their privilege and the white supremacy. Is that not madness? I need my white brothers and sisters to get off their blessed behinds, use that white privilege, and demand change. Because what is being done in the name of the colour of their skin is inhumane. The other thing is I need my black and brown brothers and sisters to stop trying to be polite. Has it helped you before? No. 

LH: You’ve described being called anti-white, being called aggressive and all the rest of it. Those who speak out will be accused as you’ve been.

SM-S: That’s what we have to go through. The reason they use all the stereotypical words against us is to stop us from talking. That is just a hurdle that you can jump over. Why? Because you’ve been there before. You’ve seen other people there before. And maybe it’s your turn to go through it; get through it so that you can get to the other side. Speaking my mind may make you uncomfortable, but that’s not my problem, because I am in discomfort and I do not see why I should put your comfort over mine. We cannot afford to be afraid of the labels that have existed for centuries. We have to not care about these labels, they do not define you. I am a child of God. Those of you that call me ugly, I point you to the Bible that says God made me fearfully and wonderfully. Let your hunger for change speak through you. And whether it’s in your workplace, on the high street, on the bus, nothing they say will hold you down. It can’t happen.

LH: You’ve had your run-ins with Piers Morgan. When he was attacking Meghan Markel, in a way that he was, very aggressively over a sustained period of time, was effectively defending white supremacy?

SM-S: Without a doubt, in my mind, there are people like Piers Morgan who don’t think how, as a privileged white man, how their words aligns with the underlying very visible human abuses that people who are black experience. I said to him what you’re doing is aggravating racial abuse against Megan Markel. And I know you know what you’re doing. I’ve always thought Piers Morgan knows better, and that is why I said to him that he was he was using his own white privilege when it came to Meghan Markel. Honest to God I expect you in the 21st century to know better, you have no excuse. You’re not 16. If you’re in your 20s or 30s, why are you not doing better to educate yourself? Don’t pass on the responsibility for educating you onto me. ‘Oh, maybe Shola can explain it to me’. Shola is tired. Shola also gets exhausted, and you may just get the wrong end of Shola if you come to me with your ignorance, because I will pack it out the door. I don’t have time for you feeling attacked, because there’s people who are really experiencing real attacks. I want you to get over your fragility and get on board, so we can fight together against that injustice that other people are experiencing. Racism is not just about hating somebody because of the colour of their skin racism, it compasses a power construct.

LH: Who inspires you? You quote bell hooks, Martin Luther King and James Baldwin. Anybody else who really inspires you? 

SM-S: My influences are quite diverse. You know, I’ve seen leaders from across the continent of Africa, people like Nelson Mandela. There’s so many leaders who actually made a difference during the colonial period, after the colonial period. And when some of them were silenced, murdered. The reason why I don’t just pick one or two is because I’m on this continuous journey of meeting many new people. I am so inspired by the youth of today. The thing that we must all do is continually progress ourselves emotionally, mentally, financially, progress ourselves in influence. This is why I say to students, you better get into that university, come out with a top degree, go build your businesses, and use your influence to shake the positive outcome.

LH: Being a mother of three daughters, it has influenced your approach to campaigning, writing and commentating? Is it about changing the world in which they’ll be grown up in? And what do you think of your activism?

SM-S: Being a mother absolutely influences the decisions I make in life. Am I doing this to build a better world for them? Heck, yes. But more importantly, and build, I’m doing what I do to build a better world for their generation and, please God, for my generation, because I’m still alive! I’m not trying to in the words of Fela [Kuti] ‘suffer and smiley’, I don’t want to be suffering and smiling. I also want to be able to exercise rights that I have. So yes, I’m doing for them, but I’m also doing it for our generation. I am done with the ‘We Shall Overcome’. And right now the conversation should be we are overcoming. White supremacy and racism is not a black people problem. It’s a white people problem. And while we fight against it, it is the responsibility of our white brothers and sisters to end it.